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After some business advice 
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Minor Diety
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Post After some business advice
Don't know if you scally wags have experience with business matters, but I have a problem:

I am prototyping a high end niche consumer product, based on one that already exists. Approx 20% of my parts are identical to those of the existing product, the rest are modified. The function and sequence of functions remains practically the same. The application is the same but my product is somewhat an evolution.

I am in the UK but will most likely produce the first batches in another EU country. There are currently 3 manufacturers (all American) licensed to make and sell the existing product.

Now, in an ideal world (for me) I envisage manufacturing and selling my product with total liberty. Such is the strength of the product, that it will be very competitive. My competitors may try to copy the product and produce their own version, but ultimately that's fine by me. I have plenty of ideas up my sleeve to keep me one step ahead.

But chances are that the existing product is patented, and one of the three manufacturers will kick up a fuss. From what I understand, searching for granted patents online is a nightmare as the information isn't really well organised. None the less, I have emailed the manufacturers for any patent information they have.

What can be done to ensure some level of survivability for my business, when it's time to kick this off? E.g. Two possible suggestions could be:

a) Sell en-masse and rapidly until you start recieving infringement notifications. Ie, quick-buck, so to speak.

b) Outsource manufacturing to China. Patents ultimately have no grounding there. (Debatable).

What are your thoughts?


Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:53 am
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Minor Diety
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I doesn't matter if you outsource to China, unless you only want to sell it there. If you want to sell it in a country, then it must not be patented in that country. There are lawyers specialized in figuring out which patents apply where. That may cost you a lot, but getting sued and having to pay to repair damages is a lot more expensive.

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Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:25 am
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Felix Rex
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You would need to hire a patent lawyer to see if a patent on your product exists and also file for a patent yourself. There's no other way around it in today's world. A company in the US, for example, can sue you and demand the federal trade commission ban imports of your goods for infringing on your patents. Samsung just did this to Sharp.

On the one hand, it's not all that likely you'll be sued when you're small unless your product duplicates exactly what another company has. On the other hand, if a patent troll holds a patent that covers your good, when you're small is when they will threaten you with settlement fees because they know you can't afford a lawyer.

Our patent system is fucked, well and truly. When I build web apps I have to worry about patents, same with desktop apps and any other useful creative endeavor. It's freakin' ridiculous.


Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:43 am
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It's a lose-lose situation from a small business perspective. Let's say some small guy patents his invention which is then shortly copied by a large company. The small guy can't afford a legal battle. Meh, I know too little. Shiny's done law shit, right?

Anyway, i've been digging around for patents, but as far as I can see there are LOTS of patents generally covering the other companies product, but none are specific to the precise parts im concerned with. I'll dig some more.


Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:10 pm
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Truthfully, how a patent works or rather is supposed to work is that you can use prior work as long as it is improved upon. So, since your product improves on the design then it is not violating the patent. But, since ultimately it is a game of who has the most money to fight, then you if sued would probably lose.

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Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:00 am
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that "improved upon" bit I like. Oh my, i've just gotten the gloomy feeling that I may need several books on patent law. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:18 am
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Good luck with that. I went to school for a paralegal/legal assistant. Lets just say the paralegals for Patent Attorneys make like $100K a year. So, yea - hard work. I'd hate to know how much the actual attorneys make.

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Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:01 pm
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Felix Rex
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it's fat money. But about as dishonest and horrible as you can get in the legal profession. I have ethics... I couldn't be a lawyer, much less a patent lawyer.


Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
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Sorry Derfmeister, I know crap all about legal matters. *French accent* Je suis un artiste!! :roll: (not really...I'm only as ignorant about reality as they are)

I hope you can work something out. The problem with most business is that in economic times like these, if you don't already HAVE money, the investment is big payoff or bust. And usually the latter. :(

I have a cousin who owns his own (successful) business at the same age as me, all self-made, but the only way he achieved that (other than tons of hard work) is by cutting corners at every twist and turn. Tax-wise and legally I mean.

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Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:33 am
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