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Iran & Nuclear Power 
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Minor Diety
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Well, there's no direct scientific proof of that, but

1) the increase in cancers (and other stuff) in Iraq and Bosnia (and US soldiers, I might add) is enormous following the use of depleted uranium.
2) even the slightest amount of radiation is enough to pose a treat to a population.


Found some stuff about it:

http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/iraqmisn.htm
http://www.inesap.org/bulletin17/bul17art04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0114-02.htm

In short, the general tone is: research is ongoing, but it is statistically clear that something is/was wrong with the wars in iraq (first one) and in the Balkan. And that something is very probably depleted uranium, which was used on both occassions...(statistically) mass cancer increases(especially leukemia) and kidney failures in Western troops stationed there and in the local populations really says enough.

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Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:13 am
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King
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Rinox wrote:
But wouldn't Arnold die in the nuclear blast as well? :)




Satis wrote:
bleh, they're an inevitable consequence of progress. Nuclear bombs also brought nuclear power and a deeper understanding of the base physical reality of the universe. It's a tradeoff I'm happy about.

I'm sure people felt similarly when gunpowder for weapons was invented, and maybe even when the first sword or spear was used to kill another human. I certainly know that the inventor of dynamite felt horrible when its power was used to kill. *cough*Nobel*cough*

Anyway, don't worry. Nukes will appear paltry when the next major stride in physics is made. Compared to antimatter weapons or whatever follows that, I'm sure we'll be pining for the good old days of mutually assured destruction by nuclear weapons.



Heh, I'm not that naïve that I thought nukes are avoidable or anything, I just felt like saying they suck :P ;) I'm still hoping I can get that bunker in North-Eastern Siberia up and running. Living in a hole in the middle of nowhere might not be my idea of paradise, but if it keeps me out of harm's way? Sure. :)

Erh...anyway. Let's hope we don't get to deal with such weaponry or its effects. I just dislike the whole hypocrisy of the debate. Saddam used biological weapons against ppl/opponents, sure, but the US did nuke Japan. And nuking is a whole lot worse than nerve gas or anything. Also, in WWI mustard gas was used by Germany. And closer to home there's the US using depleted uranium in their weaponry, causing mass cancers and birth defects in (for example) Iraq. All Western and now upstanding countries that pretty much were the first to put all those things in practice. Does it make it any less worse if you are the first to use such means? Ignorance can be bliss, but it isn't an excuse either.

So the whole debate is precarious: I don't want another country with nukes either, but really, does the West have any moral high ground? Not in the least. So I don't buy the "only evil fanatics use awful weapons" thing....I wouldn't know how to solve the problem either btw, but there should be better reasons than moral ones.

Bleh...incohorent rant, i'm tired.


But what we could say about the use of these weapons is that because we have used them it is our responsiblity to ensure it doesn't happen again.

As for the whole problem I reckon with a lot of reasonable discussion something might happen. But it's unlikely as no country is that reasonable.

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:01 pm
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Heh....if I could found my own nation it'd be reasonable enough.


That's a lie. :(

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:33 pm
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King
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Rinox wrote:
Heh....if I could found my own nation it'd be reasonable enough.


That's a lie. :(

"A person is smart. People are the dumbest animals on earth". Something like that from MIB from Agent K to J.

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Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:09 pm
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Progress on the matter:

BBC wrote:
Iran's president says his nation has successfully produced the enriched uranium needed to make nuclear fuel.


Either these are scare-tactics, or there is genuine concern over Irans nuclear program.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 900260.stm

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Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:04 pm
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Felix Rex
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Iran damn near sounds like it WANTS the US to come after it. I wish the Arab nations would stand up and do something. I'm sure they're not too happy with Iran going nuclear in their midsts.

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Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:17 pm
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Perhaps other Arab countries want nukes themselves. The only place to get them is Iran. Pakistan has nukes too, but I don't think they are willing to risk their good relationship with the west. Arabs usually like to bash each other's heads in, but the prefer to bash in non-Arab heads. They fear Amerika and Israel more then Iran.
Iran probably bets on the US reluctance to start another war... or they hope the rest of the Middle East to jump in and help them when they're attacked. Either way they're gambling.


Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:42 pm
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Felix Rex
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I wouldn't count on them like Iran too much. During the Iran-Iraq war, they backed Iraq. They didn't want Iran getting too big and dominating the region. The fact that we also backed Iraq shows how much they didn't like Iran becoming too powerful. If Iran develops nukes, their nice little status quo gets upset...a nuclear power in the middle east could do anything it wants.

Meh, anyway, only time will tell what's going to happen.

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Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:03 pm
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The US might be reluctant to start another war, i dont know. Britain is already stretched with the increased garrison in Afghanistan. The UN needs to grab this issue by the balls pretty sharpish if Iran continues to worsten the situation.

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Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:36 pm
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King
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The president of Iran knows to secure his country he must have nukes or threat of nukes. This is like a big game of poker. Everyone smiles like they have the winning hand. Iran knows if anyone else knows they have nukes they are scott free and Im sure they are trying to get them ASAP. Once any country has nukes they automaticlly get taken of the "military invasion" list by other countries and get put on the "must use diplomacy" list.

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Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:19 pm
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Iran's political timing is extraordinary in this thing...the US and its main allies are too tied up in Iraq to pose a serious threat to them atm, so this is the best possible time to announce such propaganda.

Of course, that's not counting cruise missiles and nukes. But afaik Iran's facilities are underground under mountain ranges and/or hidden. So good luck with that. :roll:

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Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:48 am
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Felix Rex
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hey, this might be a good chance to test our bunker buster nukes. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_bunker_buster

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Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:50 am
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Here's an interesting story suggesting Iran's push for nuclear power is a cover story the US is using for reason for military action while the real reason is the Iran Oil Bourse.

http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/2314.cfm

Quote:
While Iran's nuclear program has become a major focus of the international media, there are many who strongly believe that the program is only a cover for the U.S. government's true motive in a possible attack against Iran.

What some analysts posit is the real concern for the United States is Iran's plan to open its own oil exchange — the Iranian Oil Bourse (IOB) — with the alleged goal of becoming the dominant center of the Middle East's oil trade.

What makes the IOB the subject of such interest by the American government? According to rumors, which first vaulted the issue into the spotlight, the financial exchange in the aforementioned bourse will trade for oil in euros instead of the U.S. dollar. The dollar has long been the dominant currency for international oil trade.

The debate over the ultimate financial impact of trading oil in euros rather than dollars is a complex one, but according to some experts such a move could lead to a huge drop in value for the American currency, potentially putting the U.S. economy in its greatest crisis since the depression era of the 1930s.

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Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:25 am
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hmmm..switching any international trade to using Euros instead of dollars is a bad move, imo. The dollar has long term stability behind it... the Euro is almost by definition less reliable. It has a shorter history and it's a conglomeration of various economies, some of which are less than stable. A rift in the EU or a recession/depression in one EU member could cause a rapid fall in its value. Unless the EU artificially inflates the value of the EU, which could cause serious diplomatic concerns with the US. Our economies are pretty tightly inter-related... someone futzing around with European economies could adversely affect the US and vice versa.

As a fix, I think everyone should switch to the dollar. :twisted:

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Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:23 am
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haha...well, it's true that the US Dollar has a longer history behind it, but that's basically the major reason why it's still the "reserve" coin of so many countries.

But the past few years the dollar has been artificially kept high by mainly Japan and China. They buy and buy and buy...they benefit from a strong dollar (well, most of the world does, but not every country cares as much).

There have been quite a few countries changing to Euro of late though. The EU is definitely on the rise as an economic giant...still a military midget but hey. :P

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Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:40 am
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