The point of democracy is having ppl full-time working politics so that we can sit on our asses or do other, less lazy stuff. So why going back 2000 years? Also, Athens was an "Urbe"; a city-nation. Which means they didn't have all that many inhabitants, not nearly as many as most countries nowadays. Add to that that only free men were allowed to vote, and not women, children, slaves etc., and you have an election system that only works cos it can work with relative small numbers of voters.

Besides an "ideal" democracy would be much like this DDD, with groups of ppl being represented by politicians. Only problem is that the public would need to be well-informed on who stands for what etc., and that the politicians should be honest about their agenda's. But there ain't no such things so we'll have to stick with current democracy.






I think he's referring to the thing that happened in California: issueing a motion of distrust against the political leader (in California Gray Davis, in Satis' sense Bush and his pals) by collecting a certain amount of autographs and have a re-election.
But i don't think that's possible with the federal government, unfortunately.

I dont think thats possible either.

Mind you, where a greater amount of participation is required, it can be assumed that people will make greater efforts to be able to participate.

This argument can partly counter the lack of wistom and apathy that people have at the moment.

No, it's impossible to inform the mass correctly.
And people will always say: "Well that's nice, but not in my backyard", and in a place like the Netherlands everything is someone's backyard.

yeah...we're even more densely populated over here, so i hear what arathorn's saying. On a sidenote, i have a camp for illegal refugees in my backyard lol. Literally.

I truthfully file bankruptcy petitions for living and I see how badly people govern themselves economically. I do not want these same people who let their emotion totally over rule logic running my life. Plus I can not imagine a world where a bunch of religious addicts rule what I can and can not do, just because they rule the majority. Hell just let me have my own island (again it needs to be a warm place). That way I am free to do as I please, and make my own small scale decisions, which do not affect other people. If someone comes onto my island and started telling me otherwise, I'd shoot them. After all it is my island and I would have only myself to answer to.

Sounds like you have a communist ideal there Shiny.

I think she's saying just the opposite.

Youre right, sorry i was confused by what she said about her little island.