http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 439604.ece

Sucks to live in the uk.

I think this quote is seriously in order.

Lol our government just get worse and worse...

Seriously, even from a random point of view, this means there will be a hacking loophole in all our pcs that anyone could exploit, not just the police! Quite aside from the fact that if the police think I'm doing something wrong they can turn up unexpectedly at my doorstep (with a warrant) and insist that I allow them to rootle through my harddrive. That is fine. But doing it remotely? Pfft. How am I meant to know about it, will I get a courtesy email at the time they're searching? Before? After?

I love how if I was to do any of those (put a keylogger on someones pc, deliberately email them hoping they open the virus, or wait outside their home and hack their wireless) I would be punished. We might as well go back to allowing police to carry out their duty in any way they feel necessary, as long as the outcome is right

Yea, the UK is getting pretty crazy. Not saying the US is awesome about the whole invasion of privacy thing, but the UK is a couple steps ahead of us. Australia's not so glorious either. Eventually more of the public will hopefully get irritated and there'll be a backlash. At least I'm hoping so. I'd hate to have to move to another country so I don't get spied on.

Whatever happened to presumption of innocence.

I didn't think the UK ever had a presumption of innocence. Like, if you got pulled in front of a court you had to prove your innocence rather than the prosecution proving your guilt. Though that could just be misinformation.

Would you really move if things got too bad? Just wondering. It wouldn't be hard to find work abroad in your business, that's for sure.

Problem with these things is that they happen so gradually that we rarely realize it when they hit the bottom. If you were transported from the (say) 60's to present day overnight, you might be so shocked that you'd move right away, I reckon. Know what I mean?

I hear you. And there's also the question of whether you move away...and basically run away... or you stay and try to make a difference. I'd like to say I'd try to make a difference. I don't think I come across as too nationalistic, but I don't take my military service lightly. I don't know if I could abandon my country. *shrugs*

The question is whether you stand a chance to actually make a difference. The only thing you can do (and what I try to do sometimes), is to try and influence people you know. The problem is that a functioning democracy makes voters complacent, which is a danger to... democracy. You can never do it right.

We should all just move into the woods and start a community built on free love and trading. Not that it'd work, cause I'd totally monopolize Derf's ass.

Erh...just kidding? Btw Satis, not that it's a bad thing per se, but nationalism doesn't serve much of a purpose if the country's rotten. Sure, there's no place like home and all that jazz, but you'd be surprised at how easy living in a different culture is. Well, a slightly different culture - not talking Amazon forest people or the plains of Mongolia. See it as being in a bad relationship: if the person you're with is totally fucked up, why bother continuing it? You can let it drag on for a while but in the end you gotta think of nr. 1.

Trouble with making a difference is you need someone who gives a crap first of all. Like Obama for example, I'm willing to believe he is better than Bush (who the hell wouldn't be? ) but under it all as far as I'm concerned, whether he does good or bad for the country, he's still 'just' a politician. They're trained to manipulate words and 'promises' and all they want at the end of the day is a fat pay check.

Like ours. I love our country but I hate the government and no matter who is in power they'll be the damn same. We'd be a hell of a lot better off during this recession if they took a paycut, even just a temporary one. You're telling me they couldn't live on £100,000 a year? And that's me being generous. If I can live on ~£7000 a year they can manage with that. But no, instead they just gave themselves payrises. There's a surprise.

Problem is human nature. I read 'Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists' many years ago and figure the ideas in that (socialism etc) are pretty much 'perfect' but for one thing; humans. There will always be one person (in this case Ox with derf's ass apparently!) who will take advantage of a fair system to become richer and more powerful. Gonna be the same wherever you go.

Ah and Ox I beg to differ, even in the same country, things can be far too different for it to feel like home no matter what I just said to Mole today, it was weird being home in Yorkshire for 2 weeks; our town has NO chavs. None. Seriously.

On that note: Americans are on the verge of ditching capitalism


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... _socialism



McCarthy would turn over in his grave

meh, I don't believe those polls. They're always loaded. Chances are they didn't call up Americans and say "Do you prefer socialism or capitalism?" They probably said something along the lines of "Does the government need to get involved with healthcare" or some other charged topic. I dislike socialism, but would probably say yes to #2 since an unsupervised capitalist healthcare has just been raping Americans up to now.

Speaking of polls, there was another that showed Americans for the past few years were around 50/50 on increased gun control. However, in the last year that's dropped to 25% wanting stricter gun laws. So, that could be interpreted as saying that Americans are preparing for a revolution. One that may end in socialism.

Ox, leave my ass alone, you Violeur de Bois.

I dont quite think politicians are trained to bend truths. The controversy is that the people choose the government but the primary concern of government is the nation, not the people.

I'm sure you've heard it all before but democracy was first utilised in the Greek city states a long time ago. There was no such thing as a "nation", so the interests of gvt were local and therefore primarily, the populace. ("of the people, by the people, for the people")

Democracy is the spin given to the gvt of modern times because, after all, 2 of those 3 concepts are fulfilled, so long as we BS about the last one, we have a working electorial system! Given that we came from a Monarchical system, we're better off. Granted, "Democracy" today is BS, and we do get stitched up frm time to time, and we do still tend to go crazy with wars, but hey, that's because we're in a nation.

So it should be called Nationalism really, not Democracy. Unfortunately, we cant put that spin on it because that stirs the mob. The only way to change this is to chop the nation into regions again and narrow the interests back down again, but that wont happen because it kills the nation.

Sorry for the rant.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Laptop-Hack ... -4224.html

I think this is a fitting continuation to the topic.