Did I say I am allergic on the Nazi symbols? I'd kick the crap out of the guy and possibly burn him together with the thing he made just for that. The idiot would have five seconds to remove the symbols before that start happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy8mxh0P63M

A. It's not a roller coaster damnit! But damn I love that video.

B. Awesome tank.

C. Gfree, I don't think he's put the symbols there to piss people off, I think it's because it's a replica. I could be wrong, but still - those symbols are in all of our war games and if people can't handle seeing them then I feel sorry for them. Like the muslims with the pic's of the dude with a bomb for a turban. Deal with it

I hope you realize that while Mohammad caricatures didn't kill 33 million of innocent and not-at-all-involved civilians, the Hitler's fascistic creation actually did. From that point, I find it most improper to compare these two or to put them in the same category. Why do you think this guy made a replica, because his taunt said him she'd like to see it? He's a fan of the crap and it has to be whacked out of dude's head before it's too late. We here have term "educational slap". It's cool so long as he is fan of the technology (I myself would build flying radio-controlled Tu-160 replica if I had resources), but it's the symbol what I find improper, not the tank itself.

As for the games, you know: in the games you can shoot it, tear it up and burn it. What about the real world? Anyway, if it were closer here, either the symbol will have to be removed, or the guy would get sued and remove it in the end, or people who used to fear or even fight such things without weapons in hands would disintegrate it.

Imho, Germany never got a proper punishment for what they did, as well as some other lands that participated in mass civil killing. The proof is that few weeks ago, one friend of mine heard an ordinary German (so not a member of Skinheads or anything of sort) saying: "Yeah, we killed so many Jews and it was justified." Just for such people we have today, I think the Germany should have suffered death/enslavement/"getting minority-rank citizenship in a far-far country" of everyone older than 18 (except the mothers of surviving/staying ones) and get territory no bigger than today's Belgium. And that would've been the most kind punishment. Now is too late for that.

These crimes shall be never forgotten.

So what you are saying is that you would punish him for something that someone else did? And why are we discussing this in funny thread, i dont see anything funny about it. Can someone split this thread.

You're misinterpreting my words. He did put that symbol there, and mentioning what is behind that sign is giving the reason for the measures that one shall take to make the idiot remove it, not mentioning what that same idiot did. I assume he's just an idiot who is ignorant of the history, since otherwise he's not better than the people who made the creation he imitates.

Punishing Germany, was that not what caused Germany to become uber-Nationalist and start WW2 ?

Just for the record, the Soviet Union killed more people that Nazi Germany did and you have their symbol in the pic you posted, GFree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

I dislike Nazis/neoNazis, but as long as the symbols aren't being used in reverence or something I could care less.

That's just not true. Even most subjective sources imply Stalin killed about 20 million people, while only civilian victims on the non-Nazi side in WW2 were about 33 million (according to some sources over 36 million). Now, by saying Germans wasn't alone in what they were doing, one will face the question would others be brave enough to even dream of what they were doing if they were not allied to Germany. In the international crime law, even poking someone to commit murder, where the dude does it, is murder.

Even then (in the case you want to put some larger number of Stalin's soul), you forget one thing. Germans were killing people all around the world, tending to exterminate "people races" from the very places they were residing in for centuries. Thus they are not to be compared with Stalin who was doing the things inside borderlines of "his" land.

There are various claims, discussions and studies on what we know today about Stalin is true and what not. I doubt I have enough knowledge to be sure about anything. Do you have?


That's star of the Soviet Union, that was adopted before the "Great Purge" even started. I don't think they're connectable without making a self-contradictory conclusion. This star was actually symbol of many other communistic lands. SFRJ for example.

Instead of being ashamed that it was on "Stalin's flag", they were proud of it. I am proud of that star. Now, while comparing this star and swastika, I'll just draw reader's attention to the fact this star can be still worn on many places without causing any problems. Try that with swastika. Try them both on streets of Berlin today and observe the reactions. With the swastika you'll end up in jail in the best case. With the star, you'll be mocked and provoked in the worst case.

In the end, what do you Sat can say about Indians who were native of America before you, today's people of America started exterminating them? How many of them was there? How many you have killed and on what purpose (territories, fun)? Are you proud of it like I am of this star?

I understand that all this shit happened under the 'reign' of the symbol.

But the reason I compared the two completely different symbols is to show just that - they're just symbols no matter what way we look at them.

Being Christian, I don't get upset if I see an upside down cross, nor am I uplifted by a right way up cross. It's just a symbol.

That's all I'm saying.

That's comparing apples to oranges. Deaths in war is different from atrocities commited against civilians. Estimates place deaths in the holocaust between 9-11million. Stalin, as you noted, killed about 20 million of his countrymen. And about 55 million people were killed in WWII, but you can't blame any single country for that.


Atrocities are atrocities. Americans killed million of American Indians and used biological weapons on them. Just because that was in the borders of the US doesn't make it ok.


There are many claims about the validity of the numbers from the holocaust as well. I'll take the conventionally accepted numbers until someone proves otherwise.


For argument's sake, the swastika was adopted by the Nazis before they started exterminating jews, or anyone really at all. Additionally it has had many other meanings throughout history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#History


Do it anywhere where Hindu or Buddhism is the primary religion and I doubt you'll get many looks.


I think Americans massacring native americans (and Australians massacring their indigineous people, etc etc etc) is bad. But America didn't kill 20 million people in 12 years. Estimates put the indian population in the Americas at about 11 million when Europe started landing people and that number was massively reduced before the US started killing people off. Spain was probably primarily responsible for the massacre of natives in the Americas.

Regardless, the soviet hammer and sickle or the star represent a great deal of blood. More so than the swastika did, and for a much longer time.

Germany was the brain and leader of the whole Nazi-thing in the WW2, in overall. Thereby they are responsible for all deaths that happened under their creation. So it stays till Sat or Bob or Sam (whoever) construct a puzzle that will prove opposite point of view, using the pieces international criminal law. I quoted already a part of this law yet to support my POV. Deal with it. Although I can't say the number of the page and paragraph where it can be found, it's something that you can often hear in the tribunals in Hague that are taking place within the last decade. It's a notorious fact. In the end you still can even say this is my word against yours, but that will not help you about your comment about the image. We came to this topic when you implied there's something wrong about the image.


Twenty millions is not what I noticed, but what I allowed to happen in most cheerful dreams of people who want to lower size of the German's fascistic creation or maybe just to exaggerate Stalin's "evil" as much as they can. What are conventionally accepted numbers for you? Those of Russian historians, or maybe those of American historians? Or maybe you would rather trust a random web page? I'm used to read Russian sources that claim there was no more than 2M deaths under him, oh yes (guess how much I believe to them either). The thing you should notice is that there are no "conventionally accepted numbers", but the sides of which each has its "conventionally accepted numbers". That's what I know the best since I was and am witness to the wars on the territory of ex-SFRJ, where this is so normal phenomenon.

On the other side I'm not sure, but it seems you say Stalin's jails and other stuff were more dreadful than Hitler's. I claim just oppose. Until we get neutral POV material about the both and study them good enough to be able to discuss, none of claims will be more than my words against yours.


Well that's my point in the end. Above I provided you many aspects for which you cannot compare Hitler's fascistic creation with Stalin's Great Purge. Since my comparison came out of yours and you treat it in this way, you actually proven my thesis.

Now back to the symbols. I will remind you that the star from the image above is from the times of victory over Hitler's fascistic creation, not from the time of the Great Purge, which brings in question how can you actually imply something bad about that image or (maybe) say this image should be banned sooner than swastika. Go for it, express yourself. Just have on mind that swastika has been banned by law in many countries, and the star in none.


I would just say you didn't have that much to kill. You killed them (almost) all, right? You made their culture exist practically only in paper today, right? How many nations and cultures Stalin, whom you claim to be worse than you (if I get it right, tell me I don't), exterminated? None, I'd say.

Actually I am slowly getting tired of this (which does not mean I will give up if I get enough stuff to discuss about), and all its cause is this:


So lets resume from above: I do blame Germany as the core for all 33M (36M?) civilian deaths because without Germany the history wouldn't take path of events that led to them. This number is bigger than the biggest number of people Stalin's regime could have possibly killed. You may disagree with the first premise, which is of less importance.

Most important is the fact that you seemly try to use that from above to put some undefined comment about the picture I posted. Well, you can't connect these two since the image is not from the time you speak about, and does not symbolize what you imply. The star, like said, does not even concern SSSR only but many other communistic countries.

Can you make your comment more clear? I.e. "this star is worse than swastika", "this star should be banned sooner than swastika" or something alike? Otherwise I can only understand it as an acid comment, casted without giving the real point that was on mind.

If you want a neutral point of view... well here's one.

How about anyone who kills anyone is an evil sadistic son of a bitch and is equally as bad as someone else? It's wrong no matter what, regardless of numbers. Sometimes it is necessary, much as I hate that (such as "if we don't go kill this guy/country he'll kill me/my country") but that still isn't right.

So lets just agree that both Stalin and Hitler were total bastards, as were (and are) many leaders, if not all, and that they're the ones who should be hated and a few mere lines to make a symbol mean sod all.

If a Jew who lost family in WW2 to the Nazi's wants to hate the Swastika, fine, they kinda have the right to. Anyone else... well you really don't have to like it but it's not gonna harm anyone. You should all know by now that I'm very much a pacifist but hey, if someone wants to make a replica then by all means, make it a proper one. If they have retarded views behind it however... then they need a good kicking

My point (in the last few posts) is that the image I posted does have almost nothing to do with Stalin, but the victory over Hitler's fascism. That star as well does not symbolize Stalin only because it was on flag during his time, and is in no case to be compared to swastika. When Sat give me that, I'll go away.

hah, ok. It's just my opinion that the swastika is only a symbol, just as the soviet star is only a symbol. Even though I grew up in fear of nuclear war because of the soviets, I don't actually have any ill-will toward Soviet symbols.

So, feel free to have your star. But if I want a swastika I'll take one.