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Nazis make minorities look bad
https://forums.plasmasky.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1478		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Satis [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Nazis make minorities look bad
rofl...ok, excuse the subject. Anyway, here's the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1223163

Basically, Neo-Nazis had a protest in a mixed race neighborhood. apparently about 600 people came to protest the Nazis. They then rioted, burned down a bar, looted a bunch of shit, and over 100 got arrested. As far as I coudl tell, the Nazis didn't do anything illegal.

What a sad world. I hate Nazis, personally. They're stupid. But it's sad when the Nazis are the ones acting civilized. I know in Europe (at least in Germany) it's basically illegal to be a Nazi, but I consider it a freedom of speech. Just because it's unpopular doesn't mean you can't have the belief.

So, though I don't like em, I admit the neo nazis have every right in the world to have a march, just like any other group. The fact that a bunch of morons decided to use that as an excuse to destroy and loot their own neighborhood (*cough*theme?*cough*) is incredible.

So, who's more uncivilized? NeoNazis or poor minorities? Judging off of this incident (*cough*andNewOrleans*cough*) the Nazis are more civilized by far. Woooo...go freedom.
Author:  Rinox [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't believe in complete freedom of speech, as you know. So in my world, both the nazis (yeah, for protesting) and the rioters would get a ticket to the joint. :P Which basically would be the situation in most European countries, I guess.

It's sad that the rioting starts because of the march, but the march itself is already a sad fact as it is (and clearly meant to provoke). If there wasn't a march in the first place, there wouldn't have been a riot. Or not at that time for that reason, anyway. :)
Author:  derf [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:19 am ]
Post subject: 
I believe that when the party or group openly supports anti-humanitarian values, they should be put down.

In other words, im fully in favour for all sorts of political ideologists to voice their say, but when they support racism and what-the-nazis-did i draw a line and say: You are not being civilised. Your barbaric ideology is not permitted.
Author:  Pig [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't like the idea of anyone else being able to decide if my ideal and morals are legal.
Author:  derf [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:05 am ]
Post subject: 
@ Pig. if you were referring to my post:

Its not a matter of legal/illegal. Its much more simple. Racism is ignorance, not politics.
Author:  Satis [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:59 am ]
Post subject: 
define rascism.

If you clamp down on someone's right to say something unpopular, you've just destroyed free speech. Free speech isn't just free speech for people that share your ideals... it's free speech for everyone.

I'm an atheist. If I stand up in front of a crowd of mormons and start quoting the contradictions in the bible, is that hate speech? Am I discriminating against Christians? If your law passed, I bet some lawyer somewhere would try to make that point.

Freedom of speech isn't a gray area. It's white or black. Either you can say what you want, or you can't. There's no middle ground, because once you start making exceptions, there's no limit to how far your freedoms will be eroded.

So...I say that if me being able to lecture mormons on the inadequacy of the mormons requires that Nazis be allowed to hold a protect down MLK boulevard, well, Nazis, go have your protest.
Author:  derf [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Satis wrote:
define rascism....If you clamp down on someone's right to say something unpopular, you've just destroyed free speech. Free speech isn't just free speech for people that share your ideals... it's free speech for everyone...


Define ideals.
Author:  Rinox [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Satis wrote:
Freedom of speech isn't a gray area. It's white or black. Either you can say what you want, or you can't. There's no middle ground, because once you start making exceptions, there's no limit to how far your freedoms will be eroded.



I don't agree with that. We don't have black & white freedom of speech here (doesn't work anyway, imho), and our freedoms aren't really eroded. If anything, we've got more than the US where freedom of speech is supposed to absolute -except for gun ownership. :P ;) You could also call extra social security taxes an erosion of freedom, but since we get something back for that I don't look at it that way.

Freedom of speech is nice and all, but it doesn't work for radical groups whose agenda consists of nothing more than 'we are the master race, all others are inferior'. Be it white, black, red or purple dudes. Same for 'our religion is the only true one, all infidels must die'. People are sheep, they will follow whatever charismatic leader comes along and can reach them. If that happens to be an extremist nutcase there's a problem.

I'm not saying a legal prohibition of such views will stop such a thing from happening (underground and whatnot) but it's at the very least a try. Any sensible and educated person knows that you can't argue with hardcore ideologists or religious fanatics anyway. Giving them a forum for their views never helps, imo. :)
Author:  Satis [ Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd rather have people freely venting their ideas in a public forum than quietly breeding their revolutions in their cellars.

Taking away someone's right to say what they want doesn't stop them from thinking it. Nor does it stop him from spreading his views. At least in an open forum the ability to use reason to defeat someone's views is an option. You push them underground, and only bad things can come of it.

Anyway, that's fine. The US most certainly does not enjoy unfettered free speech. It's an ideal I'd like to see realized.
Author:  derf [ Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Satis wrote:
I'd rather have people freely venting their ideas in a public forum than quietly breeding their revolutions in their cellars..


Minorities dont breed revolution. Majority under oppression does.

Satis wrote:
Taking away someone's right to say what they want doesn't stop them from thinking it...


No but it stops him preaching his bullshit to those around him.
Author:  ElevenBravo [ Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nazis make minorities look bad
Satis wrote:
rofl...ok, excuse the subject. Anyway, here's the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1223163

Basically, Neo-Nazis had a protest in a mixed race neighborhood. apparently about 600 people came to protest the Nazis. They then rioted, burned down a bar, looted a bunch of shit, and over 100 got arrested. As far as I coudl tell, the Nazis didn't do anything illegal.

What a sad world. I hate Nazis, personally. They're stupid. But it's sad when the Nazis are the ones acting civilized. I know in Europe (at least in Germany) it's basically illegal to be a Nazi, but I consider it a freedom of speech. Just because it's unpopular doesn't mean you can't have the belief.

So, though I don't like em, I admit the neo nazis have every right in the world to have a march, just like any other group. The fact that a bunch of morons decided to use that as an excuse to destroy and loot their own neighborhood (*cough*theme?*cough*) is incredible.

So, who's more uncivilized? NeoNazis or poor minorities? Judging off of this incident (*cough*andNewOrleans*cough*) the Nazis are more civilized by far. Woooo...go freedom.


Yea I saw that on the news and the "media" spun it like the Nazis had done the rioting.
Author:  Satis [ Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:21 am ]
Post subject: 
hah. Isn't that just like the press. Nice. From what I gathered, the Nazis were shouting derogatory shit, but that's about it. Plus when you have 16 Nazis protesting, it's hard to arrest over 100 for looting. :P
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