to answer the 'will I shoot cops' question...if some bastard's coming after me to kill me, hell yea I'd kill him. Even if he was a cop. At that point, he's not a cop, imo. But anyway....

My real point wasn't that me having guns would allow me to defend myself against cops. My point is that cops here can't act that overbearing. They're likely to get shot. In Europe they don't have to worry about it, unless they're heavily outnumbered. They can be as heavy-handed as they want, so long as they don't cause any permanent injury. In the US, you don't know who has guns, who has video cameras, who has lawyers...

Anyway, it's kind of a moot point, really, since our cultures are so radically different in this area. What would probably happen to you guys if a burglar broke into your house and caught you unawares? Would he run away? Tie you up, take your shit and leave? Or kill you, rape your girlfriend/wife/daughter, kill her, and steal your shit? In the US, the last is a distinct possibility.

I dont think you guys (aside from shiny and satis) understand what I am saying.

I understand that in Europe(area) that the chances of a bugular carrying a weapon are slim. Thats not what I am talking about.

Im talking about, what if a natural disaster hit your town. You were left without power, without police protection, you couldnt use the phone, and you havent eaten in 3 days. Its just you and your wife.

What are you going to do when a small gang of people come to raid your house? without a gun you are screwed! I understand what your saying derf, and thats very noble about taking 10 bullets before killing someone, but you only got to kill 1 guy! There is no way in hell you would be able to kill all 10 guys.

And, not everyone lives with there entire family tree. At my house its just me and my wife.

You know, there is a epsiode of Family Guy that you guys should really watch.

In the episode, a nuclear war breaks out and kills almost everyone. Peter finds and establishes a new city where he is mayor. He wants guns to be in the city, but the citizens dont, so they kick him out and throw all the cities guns into a large fire. As the guns are burning mutants attack and start killing the citzens. One guy leans over to another and says
"You remeber the other day when you asked me what the definition of irony was?"
Then as the citzens are being killed by the mutants the people start to yell "QUICK GETS THE GUNS BEFORE THEY BURN!"
and they all die.

Funny episode.

Well for starters, now you take an extreme situation that nobody here will ever be in probably. It is as probably as a mutant attack i'd say.

So yes in those situations you're probably better off with a gun. I'll let you know when i get in any of those situations.

hey, wait till EuroSARS...you'll be wishing you had a gun then.

Or 28 days later or whatever.

Im not saying mutants will attack, its just a funny skit about guns in general. You never want them till you need them.

Ok, but next time this rolls into your neighbourhood.




All youll be able to do is this

You'd be surprised to see how many people actually supported the nazis. I don't think an armed German population would have made any difference.

An armed French populace might have.

Oh, wait, wtf am I thinking. An armed Polish population probably would have, though.

Giving French people weapons might be the stupidest decision you could make. Unless they blow up in their own faces when fired off course.

One of the assumptions that people seem to be having is that there will be a total social breakdown. In America, because of the culture and natural disasters that can occur in that area that is why. But the purpose for a government is to prevent this? Does this then show the inadequances of the US government.

a government has alot of uses.

Regulate trade
provide for the common defense
etc etc etc.

A government can't prevent a social breakdown. That's a soceital issue, imo.

Okay let me put into two different contexts.

1) If i were in Europe, where there is a negligible chance of there being a firearm within the group, id stick to the options i said earlier. In this case, seeing as you said, myself and my wife are in the house, we will get the hell out of there.

2) If we were in the states and the gang had firearms while we only had one, I would still get the hell out of there. 10 guys and atleast a couple armed will be able to get in easy. Remember, ill only have about 13 rounds, many will probably be misses and non-lethals (talking reality here).

So which do i prefer my chances? Europe, any day.

loaded....

15 9mm rounds of beretta
7 .32 rounds for shiny's gun
3x30 5.56mm rounds (90 total) for M16.

plus several hundred 9mm and 5.56mm bullets not loaded.

I could hold off a small army for long enough for the cops to arrive. And the point isn't to kill them. It's to make them realize you're not an easy target and to move along to something else. When faced with the reality of getting blasted, most crooks will just run the other way.

And if you had 10 guys with baseball bats come into your house, you'd be dead or beat stupid. No way you could defend against that.

Ok, but what if youre sitting down, eating dinner, and in bust some thugs? How are you going to get out?

Get up and pelt it out the back door, (Throwing dinner plates to slow them down if within range) dragging wife behind? lol

That of course, in such a scenario that you described earlier. Ie. whats going on now in N.O.

that kinda shit happens all the time, actually. Maybe not 10 people, but 1-3 typically. Home invasions. A very real threat.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=u ... e+invasion