Bruce Lee? [EDIT: Hes dead, whoops that doesnt count]

how about glenn danzig?

Allright bastards, there are quite a few of them. Point taken. Luckily irl most ppl aren't built like a tree (Danzig) or martial artist pwners (Lee). Besides, we've gone through the martial artist discussion...I still don't think a martial artist of 5'2" could take me or any other relatively well-built man of 6 foot. Without using weaponry, that is.

Bullshit. Are you joking? Unless you are especially good at fighting there is no reason why a black belt midget shouldnt be able to kick your ass.

I'm pretty sure that the fact that I could lift him over my head and toss him against a wall would give me an advantage. A person of a 1.55m weighs what, 55 kilos? He probably could floor me ten times before I realize what's going on, but what's next? Pinning me? yeah right.

You can be all the karateka you want, but getting smacked in the head several times by a bum fighter who's 30 centimetres taller still hurts. There's a reason why they have weight classes; because the heavyweights would crush the featherweights in 2 blows.

I'm probably exaggerating (that's me), but meh. Thinking in nuances is so boring. Of course, I've never fought a black belt of any size so I have no clue, but the idea of a 1.55m guy kicking my ass seems very funny - for now.

Of course a random tall guy will pwn a random small guy.

But, lots of Bruce Lee stuff comes into play here. Like the stuff he said about "be water, my friend" its all good being a big boy, but if a small guy is trained in death, he will kill you. How can you reject that?

Anyway, i think we could use the opinion of an martial artist. Mole! Get yo ass in here now!

Yellow.

Okies, let's look at it this way. By "midget" I'm assuming you don't mean someone suffering from dwarfism, because that limits movement. So I'll assume just a short person.

So, Here's Ox, big and strong, and here's mister shorty, little but fast.

Basic logistics of it is, IF ox hits, it's gunna do some damage to the shorty. But, the chance of ox hitting a highly trained shorty, are very slim. (assuming, of course, that ox has no training, and very little experience in fighting)

Chances are, a black belt, would indeed know some "kill" moves, maybe not be able to execute them greatly, but still I am only 3rd level (i forget which colour that is, it's been a while) and I Know some kill moves. But I didn't tell you.

At the end of the day, in a "fair" fight, I'd put my money on the martial artist, purely because he'd _probably_ fight smarter. But, That's not to say I wouldn't put a few quid on Ox too, just because I don't think he's going to just get the tar whooped out of him just like that.

Example, Me and ox are fairly evenly built, from what i know. But I could probably hit ox in a straight foot-lock punchout, 3 times, for every one of his hits.

Difference is, one of his hits, will probably be more brutish, and floor my ass. But my hits will be more accurate, and hit to smarter locations, as such rendering ox dead, or at least freeing a hand of my own for defence.

It just depends on who hits first.

Lol, that posts's probably about true. It sucks. That's why there are chairs, lead pipes and no eyes on ppl's backs...suckerpunch fighting, yeah baby!

you forgot just one minor detail, distance. Martial artist requires room whereas a brute closes in and leaves the martial artist no room to execute his moves. Read from any selfdefence manual you want, the first thing is to move close enough so the attacker doesnt have room to power his attacks.

This in fact renders ma's spinkicks and whatnot footwork almost unusable.

Still one strong hit in the throat kills any man.

Nice topic under "funny stuff"

This is 100% completely untrue. There are, as with most things, 3 categories. Long (kicks basically) Med range, and of course close range. A brute fighter, would need more distance. He has to accumulate power from his shoulder. A martial artist, does it from the hips, meaning that there is zero swing in a fist attack, it's all "internal" power. A brute fight would bring his fist right back, and use velocity for power. But of course, the path between behind the brute's shoulder, to the Martial Artists face, is long than from infront and center of the martial artist, to the brutes heart, face, throat, arm pit, solar plexus, etc. Of course, you could punch at about 2-5 punches per second, also, but in doing so, you can not use your hips at that speed. Hmm, search for "chainlink punching" or "chain punch"

Tell you what, I'll do it for you.

http://www.answers.com/topic/wing-chun



This is kinda true - except books aren't allowed to tell you to kill people. Wing Chun (The kung fu that I study) is not a self defence class. It is a class on how to take down your oponent(s) so that they can not harm you. For instance, breaking limbs, fingers, toes, blinding (man, there's some nasty blind move in one of the short forms i do). You are taught to destroy the attack. Not defend it, or to put it another way

Defend leads to attack.

There is what is called "entries" 1 through 6. These are to get your self close to the opponent, as doing what you said, helping you defend your self. you start with what is known as a bridge, for instance you block a right jab, with your right hand, you feel the contact, as soon as you feel that contact you "pak" the "bridge" out of the way. move in. There is an "unwritten" rule, about bridges, if you meet 3 bridges, you are fighting someone who you should be running away from.



Spinkicks yes. Footwork no. I could easily step around any oponent who is untrained, from any distance. far or near. Also on the "no" list is the following

Punches, elbows, knee's, heads. (though, headbutting is brute )

So, er... in short, Pelts, you are wrong

Dude you aint moving nowhere if yer in the grip of a brute.

Besides i dont want this turn into a flame war. I have a teacher at uni who is also a selfdefence specialist and he said that any martial art expects that opponent would atleast try to mimic some form of technique, when it comes to dirty fighting (bar brawls, street fights) ma is usually rendered useless because the opponent doesnt attack like the person yer sparring with in the practice.

So in the end, i would bet on the larger dude, remember life's different than in hollywood movies.

i'm not flaming.

I study the Kung Fu martial art, wing chun. At the end of the day, I'd kick this pre-defined brutes ass all over the place. As Derf said, bruce lee once said "be as the water, if the water enters the bowl, it becomes the bowl" (not an exact quote) but this indeed does confirm what you have just said



By doing this, it shows adaptation, which is what martial arts is all about. If I fight a brute, i'd use moves that use the enemies strength against him. Infact, the first ever move I learned does just that. A Pak Sau. (i think that's how you spell sau.. ) the harder the oponent hits, the further back he pushes himself. I know that if 100 people were to challenge me, I wouldn't be able to do jackie chan or matrix style asswhoopin, that's for sure. But I'd probably be able to defend my self against 2 oponents (given that they aren't trained) fairly well, but of course, being out of shape as I am, I would grow tired before they did. But, If I was fighting one, I'd out last them because I wouldn't put all my effort into my punching and offense, I'd attempt to use their offense as an entrance, so I could strike their heart, throat etc.

Of course, I'm not that good, but you catch my drift. Hey, Ox, come to england, we'll spar and see how it goes![/quote]

heh well i've seen mole, the other students in his class and his teacher fighting so although I still have the odd reservation i'd sure as hell say martial artist would win in a fair fight any day. However get the lead pipes or a gun and the dude is doomed... well actually he would disarm you of the pipe if you were slow at swinging it

I dont think a martial artist would be unbeatable against someone who isn't trained, but you'd have to be a damn good fighter to beat them, thats for sure. Mole's practised the odd move with and against me and ok, so I know what he's doing and am going along with it but it's easy to see how you can get trapped and pretty much rendered at the mercy of this guy. and heck, Mole is fast but his teacher... well you gotta wonder how the body can move so damn fast lol. hehe I still get the odd hit in against mole though... he only blocks about 99% of my attacks

In strangely related news...

http://www.fftimes.com/index.php/3/2005-05-30/21415

Pff only one kick, what a pussy.