Yes, morality and moral values depend totally on a person mind. I mean abortion is a good example to use. I think abortion is morally wrong, most of you here think abortion is morally ok. Hitler, Nazi's, the brown shirts, where all Christians and they thought treating jews like crap was morally ok. A poor man might deduce that mugging someone to feed his family is morally ok. A cannibal tribe in Africa might think its morally ok to eat one of their own. Morals are all based on reasoning using the limited capacities of the human mind. And that whole "herd" theory is... not a good example. It has nothing to do with being like herd.

well, I can understand the herd definition. Humans are social animals...most of our concepts of right and wrong are societally enforced...either society or religion. If you grow up somewhere thinking it's ok to kill Belgians, you'll probably think it's ok (it IS!). Even though it may not make intellectual sense.

Of course, humans are also intelligent creatures. Anyone should be able ot overcome trained morality with intelligent thought. Most people just don't like to think, I guess.

but there is some morality that we refuse to overcome because our intelligence won't let us. The examples I gave earlier stem from morality. Tho there are somethings I don't like. As for the herd theory, maybe "pack" would be a mroe suitable word, afterall that's why dogs are man's best friend.

A pack or a herd is the same, just that pack is commonly used for predators, while herd is used for prey. Humans fall in both cathegories.

True but more of the former and less of the latter. Herd suggests herbivore whilst pack animal suits the hunting aspect of man.

I think trying to explain "moral" and "right and wrong" using the example of herds or packs ..isnt effective, or doesnt fit the reasoning behind morals.

There is "some" credance to the herd or pack idea. That being that people are willing to do things in a group that they wouldnt normaly do if they where by themselves. Something about being in a group cause a person to override their morals, beliefs, values, and turn with the mob rule.

If you think about it, there is something else besides "morals" that tell you what is right and what is wrong. It just the majority of the time our 3 dimensional intellect blocks that "something" and uses its power of reason and its ego to change it.

Take drugs or instance. Something is telling you that you shouldnt do drugs and its not your morals or your mom or a tv ad, its something else. Yet, for some reason you think about it and reason out that drugs arnt all that bad, or you reason out another reason to make yourself think its ok.

Your mind always tries to reason out the truth to bend it and shape it into something than it is.

What I meant with my herd theory is that you won't do things that work against the group, like stealing from it, because there's a big risk in being found out. I think that's what morality is based on. Morality is defined by the group of people around you. It's just common sense packed into something else, and then muddled by things like religion.

Why people always try to do things like drugs, is probably because humans are very inquisitive by nature. The most used arguement for doing drugs is: "It can't hurt just to try". You want to try it out, despite people arguing against it (or because of), because you simply don't believe a lot of things you haven't seen or felt yourself.

I disagree. People dont care what other people think, they only think about themselves.

Ill give you a good recent example.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ ... -headlines

All this "Black Friday" stuff, people walking over people, knocking people over. They dont care what the mob thinks, what the pack thinks, all they care about is themselves.

Same can be said on the highway. On a highway people drive in packs. On the highway do you think anyone cares what happens to another car? Hell no, its every driver for themselves, if you break down people get pissed and holler at you because your making them late.

Look at New Orleans at hurricane Katrinia. All those people trapped in the superdome, they where herded together. Did that stop people from raping women? Nope, all they cared about was themselves.

"Whats in it for me" is the motto for humans so, herd theory, I dont by it.

But thinking about yourself also requires thinking of the consequences of your actions, and those consequences are defined by what the people around you think.

Yes but a mob is different to a community herd or pack. The herd or pack has to rely on each other to survive. As for drugs its a bad example as prehistoric studies show it was likely that humans used them all the time and may have contributed to the advancement of humankind. What you describe is a modern attitude towards drugs because society has given you that. There aren't that many "good" or "bad" drugs, just ones that effect you in certain ways depending on the quantity. And the thing that you describe besides morals is perhaps your consense (can't spell the word). I wouldn't cheat on my girlfriend (despite knowing her and going out with her for only 2 days) because it would hurt her and me and the fact that I care for her and love her means that my consense will not allow me to do so.